cancellation??

Re: cancellation??

Healthy debate is always good and I commend Imaginative Traveller for having this forum so these issues can be expressed.

I have traveled with Imaginative Traveller several times and have always been impressed by their concern for the safety and security of clients. I was in Turkey when the earthquakes happened and I know that many people had similar concerns about travelling there at the time. (yes I know an earthquake and terrorism are not the same, but my point is about safety - please bear with me...)

Imaginative Traveller would never do anything that puts clients at risk. Many people have expressed their concerns about 'loved ones not wanting them to be at risk' - Imaginative Traveller also has 'loved ones' in these places - friends, family and staff who are living and working in these countries - they are not going to put clients at risk any more than they would put their own 'Imtrav family' members at risk and I think it is short-sighted of people to accuse the company of not being interested in real issues of safety because they are continuing to run tours.

Yes, they are in business. Yes they make some money - this is how they stay in business. Because of what they do they are also providing a livelihood to a great many local people in these countries. To simply pull out and stop everything based on the possibility of what may happen will have enormous effects on the local economies of these countries. This was evidenced when other companies did pull out of Egypt after the Luxor events - many people who rely on the tourism industry for their survival had a very hard time recovering. Imaginative Traveller resisted the knee-jerk reaction to pull out and stuck with it, always keeping safety and security a high priority, and tourism has continued once again.

The biggest problem with the current events is the unknown - noone really knows what is going to happen and what effect any kind of military action against Afghanistan will have. But at this time, apart from an obvious need to be vigilant about ongoing events, there is no need to stop going to these places.

Imaginative Traveller has rightly decided to continue to operate their tours, and should also rightly be able to impose provisions on cancellations. They do incur costs in the planning and booking of tours, and just because you have a personal concern about travelling (when all embassies still say it is ok to go) doesn't mean that Imaginative and therefore also the people they are supporting in the countries, should have to continuously lose. The effect of current events is already impacting in a big way on this and other travel companies, and the end result is that many people are losing jobs and companies going bust (how many airline jobs have been lost in the last two weeks because of this??!!) - everyone ends up losing!

I think Imaginative Traveller has been reasonable with their policies on dealing with cancellations and changes. I know, from my own experience, that they will not do anything that would be considered to be risky and put us in the line of fire. And if something should happen when you are there, they will make sure that we are looked after. The middle east has always been an area of problems, and this is something that everyone takes into consideration when chosing to go there in the first place.

What are other companies in the same business doing? If anyone has direct knowledge of their policies on these issues I would be interested to know.

The other thing you have to look at is your travel insurance - you should have cover if you are travelling, or planning to travel. Insurance companies have various policies relating to cancellations due to such occurances - check if you are covered for this if you decide not to go.

One final point, I have just returned from Morocco (yes with an Imaginative tour!) and was overwhelmed by the concerns expressed by local people (who are muslim) about the recent events - everyone I spoke to wanted to make very strong point that muslims in general do not support the sort of terrorist actions taken in the US and that Islam is not about these types of activities. They are really suffering because of a world perception that all muslims/arabs are bad - this is just not true!! There is so much intolerance in this world and most of it due to complete ignornce - let's not tar everyone with the same brush!

Re: cancellation??

HI,

Dirk said:
"I agree with the person who posted as NOW"

Well Dirk, you would! You made that post and you ARE 'NOW'!

Hope the weathers good and that Spring brings warmer weather for you and yours.

Regards
Ru

Re: cancellation??

Well Dirk/ Now,

I guess the answer is a simple one, those that have doubts- don't go. There is nothing anyone( myself included) can say in this forum, that will allay your doubts & fears. Despite what Dirk/Now thinks I do understand peoples fears & can understand how some people would be apprehensive about flying off to Egypt(anywhere for that matter). I doubt very much that Dirk/Now has any intention of travelling there anyway. Perhaps you would like to tell us if you have been there ( as you are such an expert on these matters) or intend to make the step oneday? Or are you just having a bit of cheap entertainment, by surfing the web?

Well I guess I must be the over bearing & immature one, but like you I thought that it was still a democracy & that I was able to defend my opinion. At least I have enough fortitude to use my own name & will stand behind my statements. How many times have you made a reply in this site? I think this will be my 117th, which means I have a fair bit to back up. By the way if Jordan bans " any Muslim participation in such a coalition" there won't be much of a representation from Jordan will there? Jordan is a Muslim country, to ban Muslim's from having a say in their own country would be like the Nazi's condemning the Jews to death....just because they were Jews.

I'm sorry to hear that you are an Aussie, I had hoped that Australia was a non racist country. Apparently I was wrong.

[This message has been edited by Debbie Comini (edited September 24, 2001).]

Re: cancellation??

dear Debbie, You are wrong on several counts, one being that I am not an Ausie but an American - got any problems with that? I am sure that you will find something to complain about. Secondly, I have been to Egypt twice before and loved it. Thirdly, I have been all over the world on six of the seven continents and nver cancelled a trip before. Yes, I probably know more about travelling and more about politics in other countries than you do. I also posted on this forum before.

Re: cancellation??

I have travelled around the world as well, including Egypt and never cancelled a trip before either...Just don't feel like it is a good time to travel, especially to the Middle East. And Debbie, I know how much you loved Egypt, I have been following this forum for over a year, but right now, you do not have a trip booked to Egypt and you might feel differently if you did....Even though you love the people of Egypt and the country itself, it does not make it any safer. And according to all the forums you have answered, Egypt is the only country you have ever visited....as an experienced traveller, common sense prevails and i would not travel to Egypt at this time if i had a choice. Especially if I was an American, it would not be a wise choice. Imaginative Traveller is a great tour company, we felt very safe with them, but this situation cannot be controlled by a Tour Company...I strongly think that if someone does not feel comfortable travelling at this time, that they should not and no one should try and tell them that they should....

Re: cancellation??

Hi Ru,
I guess Mr. NOW knows more about the "News" than about the internet. Shall we tell him what those tiny blue letters in the corner of his post that say IP "logged" mean? It might just be a big surprise to all those "anonymous" posters who have so many registered names. You do the honours. [img]http://www.imaginative-traveller.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img]

I did find NOW's post stating all the different opinions interesting. However, how he came up with China and Egypt as being in opposition to the U.S. puzzles me. They simply stated the sames concerns that everyone has (including the U.S. leaders), being that much thought should go into any decisions regarding military actions in this matter.

BTW, maybe I should be the first to welcome you here. you have taken Chris's place in the company as the forum moderator. Congratulations! How about introducing yourself as a newbie?

I love browsing through this website as it is constantly changing. Being a lover of photography, I especially enjoy the huge wealth of beautiful pictures that we can find on this site, so I come here regularly to see what is new. My compliments to your designer.

[Note: This message has been edited by Marty]
This email contained a forbidden URL, not the intenion of the poster, a genuine mistake which I have rectified.

[This message has been edited by Marty (edited September 27, 2001).]

Re: cancellation??

Thank you Tracy, you made me feel much more comfortable with my decision. As many of you have already attacked me, I feel I should tell you that I never intended to offend anyone, and certainly was not attacking anyone personally. However, I felt that many were belittling my opinion and condeming my quite rational apprehension. I am not a competitor, and have not registered only because I didn't really think i would be on this site that much. I am in fact a student in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada. Because I am in the capital city of Canada, maybe I am a bit more sensitive to the unpredictability of this situation. I have seen our city triple it's police and enforcement staff on the street, and have RCMPs at every street corner. And all this for a country who really has no real chance of attck.

As I read some of these posting, it made me feel incredibly stupid for being scared, but then I would talk to proffessors or even the Egyptian consulate and feel reassurred about my decision to deffer my trip. I even wrote to the Lonely Planet to see if I was over exaggerating with wanting to wait to go. They said absolutely not and that every tour company should understand that people are weary of travelling to the middle east.

So please don't condem those of us who are not quite as thick skinned as you are, or perhaps take a little more caution.

Re: cancellation??

Hello Kye,

As I said in my last post, "those that have doubts don't go". Does that sound as though I am having a shot at you or others that decide not to go?? If people are full of doubts I don't think they would enjoy themselves anyway. It is supposed to be a holiday after all. I have just gone over the posts I have made on this topic & at no time have I tried to talk anyone into going. I have said that I would go if I was able to...as have others.

Yes I may have only been to Egypt once, but have remained in contact with my friends in Egypt. No I may not have been there a dozen times, or travelled anywhere else. However I do keep in touch with what is going on.

If I was finacially able, I would be on a plane to Egypt tomorrow. Of that I have no doubt.

Dirk/Now, what a shame you used the ABC as your point of information....you might be an American (no complaints about where you come from), but you're certainly here in Australia. I didn't know we were discussing World politics here, have I missed something?? If you have travelled so extensively I stand corrected, however in your names of Dirk/Now I haven't read anything about you cancelling a tour. How many other names have you used??

Once again, those that have doubts ...don't go. Those that choose to go, I hope you enjoy your holiday.

[This message has been edited by Debbie Comini (edited September 25, 2001).]

Re: cancellation??

Hello
i booked a trip to Egypt with my agent and am travelling in December 2001. This site makes it look like no one is going to Egypt but I cant get a place on my first choice on a Christmas tour they are full. I am with the imaginative traveller and am looking forward to it. thought I would say so.

Re: cancellation??

Hello All,

Last night (our time) I phoned my friends in Egypt. They inform me that all is quiet, things are going on as usual....what more can I say?

The above statement was made with the intent of easing peoples concern. Not to score points. It was short as I was in a hurry to get to work. It seems no matter what I say, it is taken out of context. With this in mind, this will be the last post I make on this topic, unless I am asked a question.

Hope everyone enjoy's their holidays, those that don't feel comfortable about going...don't worry too much, there is always another time.

[This message has been edited by Debbie Comini (edited September 26, 2001).]

Re: cancellation??

It seems to me that this debate has degenerated into a slanging match concerned more with scoring points than the true issue here - whether it is actually safe to travel to Egypt and whether the Imaginative Traveller are being fair to not offer refunds to everyone.

I am not just about to travel to Egypt so some will think I have no right to join in this debate, but I have an opinion like everyone else and feel that I have every right to express it.

I understand all of those who do not wish to travel, I really do. Personally I would be much more scared of flying than of the country I was flying to (being a bit of a big girls blouse about flying at the best of times) but having been to several Middle Eastern countries including Egypt and Syria I can honestly say once there I would feel as safe as I do on my own doorstep.

However, fear should not be belittled or ridiculed as we ALL feel it to a certain extent now. So to those who really don't want to go, don't. Make your choice and stand by it. One thing I believe in more than anything else is the freedom of choice.

But (and I'm sorry there has to be a but) if you choose not to travel it is completely and utterly unreasonable to expect the Imaginative traveller to simply cover the cost of arrangements already made and refund everyone, travelling anywhere, at anytime, if they now do not want to go. Yes, this is an unprecedented situation and none of us really know what to think or how to cope but this does not mean that the rules we all normally live by should automatically be ditched.

To be completely inflexible would show a lack of compassion and awareness. But Imtrav are not being completely inflexible, they have reviewed the situation and published a policy that may not appease everyone but seems to me to be fair.

At the end of the day, no one wants to lose money, especially those who have saved so hard for a holiday. But you can't put a price on your own safety - if you truly believe it is at risk.

We are never 100% safe anywhere in the world and let's be honest there are enough nutters living down your own street. I would go to Egypt now, but I understand totally those who wouldn't. We should just respect everyone else's views rather than spreading more hate and animosity in a world that has more than enough.

Re: cancellation??

Hi everybody,

i'm off to NYC tomorrow morning and am more nervous about that than i would be going to any of the middle east destinations imtrav goes too. Go on holiday, don't let the terrorists win.

Re: cancellation??

I want to echo the sentiments expressed by stoff - don't let the terrorists win! That's exactly what they are on about - causing terror and therefore making us live our lives locked up in cocoons so we don't get hurt.

Yes this has been a terrible tragedy, and it has opened many eyes to what these lunatics can be capable of. But if we all end up being too scared to walk out our front doors and get on with some of the things that make the world function, then they win and we lose!!

It will take many people a long time to get over all this - and sadly some people never will - but do not let them achieve their goals by forcing us to live in constant fear of everyone and and everything around us!

Re: cancellation??

Been checking the Imtrav site every day for information, excellent site and forums.

Flying to Egypt Sep 29, travel fever!!! This is my first trip with Imtrav and I'm really looking forward to it.

I think Imtrav have been very generous, giving people the chance to re-schedule their trip but my decision is still to go. I have found no information anywhere that it's more dangerous to go to Egypt than to any other country outside the western hemisphere (except for Afghanistan/Pakistan).

But I don't like that my airline has cancelled and re-scheduled my flights :-((

/Jonas

Re: cancellation??

I would just like say that I have found the Imaginative Traveller flexiable with their cancellation / changing tour policy! I have been able to transfer my tour to Egypt with no fuss although I did pay a

Re: cancellation??

HI,

I returned yesterday from a "Beyond the pyramids" tour. This is the best time to visit Egypt.

The checks on the western airport Schiphol the Netherlnds was yet really good. But on Cairo Airport it was just much better. The luggage was scanned twice, whereafter the handluggage was manually checked. it cannot be saver know.

When you want to see the real Egypt, go now.
Hardly anyt tourist can be seen. One of my fellow tourtravellers was the only one inside the pyramids of Chefren.

It is perfectly save in Egypt. You travel always with police permission. Sometimes in convoi with police protection. At all major sites enormous amounts of tourist police can be found(with guns).All this for our safety.
Please do go on your tour. The egyptian economy depends on tourism.

SO JUST GO ON YOUR TOURS TO EGYPt. IT IS SAVE AND QUIET.

Jan Smith
The Netherlands