SARS Pneumonia?

Re: SARS Pneumonia?

Dear wmleler

Thanks for your post.

I've checked both the Center for Disease Control and World Health Organisation websites, and neither recommend against travel to these areas, and certainly I have not found anywhere stating what you have posted. The Center for Disease Control says that travellers 'may wish to postpone their trips', and the World Health Organisation specifically states that it does not recommend against travel. Have a look at what these organisations have to say by clicking on the links below.
http://www.cdc.gov/od/oc/media/pressrel/r030317.htm
http://www.who.int/mediacentre/releases/2003/pr23/en/

We feel that South East Asia and China continue to be safe destinations to travel to, and are continuing to run our trips as normal, as well as keeping ourselves updated about the situation from all the relevant agencies.

I hope that this information helps.

Regards

Jim
The Imaginative Traveller Online

Re: SARS Pneumonia?

You can't find anything stating what I have posted? This is taken from the CDC link you posted:

"CDC advises that persons planning elective or nonessential travel to Hong Kong and Guangdong Province, People?s Republic of China and Hanoi, Vietnam may wish to postpone their trips until further notice."

We are signed up for the "Beijing to Hanoi" trip, which travels to two of the three places we are being advised to avoid. For now, we will take a wait-and-see attitude. But combined with the Iraq situation...

Re: SARS Pneumonia?

Hi wmleler

Thanks for your post.

We appreciate your concerns about travelling at this time.

I am aware of what was written in the CDC report, but, I couldn't find anywhere within it where specifically advises or recommends against travel - as you stated, it just says that travelers 'MAY wish to postpone their trips'. I guess that this may be seen as a matter of interpretation, but the Center for Disease Control doesn't seem to actually be telling anyone not to go anywhere.

I hope that this clarifies the issue.

Regards

Jim
The Imaginative Traveller Online

Re: SARS Pneumonia?

I agree that the CDC report was open to interpretation, but now I'm seeing that the US state department has suspended official travel to Vietnam. "The State Department on Saturday advised Americans to reschedule nonessential travel to Vietnam."
http://www.cnn.com/2003/TRAVEL/03/22/mysteryillness.travel.ap/index.html http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=20030321-093912-5472r

I'm not trying to be an alarmist, I'm just a little concerned about my Beijing to Hanoi trip.

Thanks for continuing to look into this.

Re: SARS Pneumonia?

Hi wmleler

We take the safety of our travellers very seriously, and when considering whether to run trips in certain countries, we take advice from both our local agents, and the British Foreign Office.

Neither have advised us to discontinue our tours in Vietnam, and we're continuing to run them as normal. We are of course monitoring this situation.

I hope that this helps.

Regards

Jim
The Imaginative Traveller Online

Re: SARS Pneumonia?

thanks. Please let me know if anything changes.

Re: SARS Pneumonia?

I am planning travel to VN, Cambodia, and Thailand in the fall.

Here is the link to the Government of Canada web advisory regarding SARS. It is quite explicit.
http://www.voyage.gc.ca/main/sos/ci/cur-en.asp?txt_ID=264

I hope this helps and does not serve to confuse matters further.

Re: SARS Pneumonia?

Another (calmer) view of the SARS epidemic:
http://www.fumento.com/disease/sars.html

wm

[This message has been edited by wmleler (edited April 01, 2003).]

Re: SARS Pneumonia?

I arrived in Hong Kong on January 03. I have lived there until now and I booked the "Yangtse & Southwest" trip starting on May, 05.

I think it is necessary to give an update about the SARS from the perspective of somebody who experiences the daily life in HGK. Each day, the situation gets worse and worse. More and more people get infected and are put under quarantine; app. 80% of the population is wearing face masks and the mood in the town is very bad. The government claims that the situation is under control, but that is definitely not the case. The WHO has even admitted that the virus is likely to be transmitted by air. Psychologically, it is a very stressful situation and not at all relaxing.

The bad thing is that the situation in China might be worse as the government does not provide any datas.

I am really thinking about cancelling the trip. I don't wanna make people more afraid but I think everybody should know how the situation in HGK / China is. Actually, I am a bit disappointed by Imtrav's commitment. It is your job to inform people. Of course I know, that the WHO has not given out any travel restrictions. But the reasons for this behavior might be political. It is definitely not reasonable and does not comply with the current situation.

Marc Probst

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Marc Probst

[This message has been edited by broesmeli (edited March 31, 2003).]

Re: SARS Pneumonia?

Maybe I should have said a bit more about that link I posted above:
http://www.fumento.com/disease/sars.html

That article talks about the actual risks from SARS. Its conclusion: "There may no fatal illness that will cause fewer deaths this year than SARS". It discusses the fact that you are far more likely to die from malaria (2.7 million people yearly) or tuberculosis (around 3 million people yearly) than SARS (58 people total). The danger of actually dying from it is about the same as the danger of being hit by lightning (around 150 people yearly).

The more I read about SARS, the more it appears that the media and the public in general are taking the risk from SARS far more seriously than it takes far more serious risks. Marc's posting seems to confirm that speculation -- he talks about the mood being very bad, and about how 80% of the population is wearing masks. But this is not hard data on the actual risk from SARS. In Hong Kong, 530 people have become infected, and 13 have died from SARS. I'm sure that far more people than that have been killed in traffic accidents during the same period of time.

I'm not trying to dismiss the risk from SARS. To me, the real danger of SARS is the danger it poses to health care providers (doctors and nurses). This is causing emergency rooms to be closed in some places, which means that if you catch some more common disease, or even just break your leg, it might be much harder to get treatment in some places.

But let's look at this objectively and calmly.

wm

[This message has been edited by wmleler (edited April 01, 2003).]

Re: SARS Pneumonia?

I definitely agree on your view. In the beginning I thought in the same way and I am still trying to do this.

It is a fact that 95% of the infected people recover. What I am saying is that the current situation does not allow you to enjoy holidays. It is not because the danger of an infection is too high, it's the psychological stress. It is not relaxing at all. Maybe this sounds ridiculous for people staying in a non affected country, but a stay in an affected area may change ones view suddenly.

Today I saw for the first time people wearing gloves and buying food like hell. Things like this do not leave you untouched, even if you are very rational.

What worries people here is that a) lot of shops /restaurants need to close by next week due to bankruptcy; b) lot of people who are able to (such as expats) have already left the country; c) other countries (e.g. Thailand) put travellers coming from Hong Kong under quarantine; d) nobody knows the cause of SARS; e) more people get infected daily; and d) the China government does not support the WHO. Besides, some countries (e.g. Canada) have already given out travel recommendations.

But as wmleler said: let's look at this objectively and calmly. Nobody can say whether SARS is really dangerous. Therefore, I try to give an objective impression of life here. Finally, everybody has the make a decision on his /her own.

mp

Re: SARS Pneumonia?

Hi,

Further to Jim's posts above, I wanted to post a message to explain clearly what we have been doing in response to the outbreak of the SARS virus in parts of Asia.

Firstly all of our staff have been fully briefed about the virus and have been provided with a wealth of information that clearly outlines the major issues at this time. This information includes the official travel advisory from the World Health Organisation (W.H.O.), which does not advise people to defer their travel at this time, a list of FAQs from the W.H.O. and the travel advice from the British Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO). The FCO concurs with the view of the W.H.O. and is not advising against travel to any of the affected areas. This information is being made available to travellers on request and also upon arrival in Asia.

I do not believe that either the W.H.O. or the FCO have any political agenda with regards this advice.

Secondly, we have a very clear picture of the situation

Re: SARS Pneumonia?

Hello,

I would just like to add some of my comments for people to consider. I have been following all of the WHO announcements as well as the travel advisories issued by Health Canada, since I have a trip booked to travel to some of the affected areas. I would like to bring to your attention that Hong Kong and Singapore has issued a quarantine order. If any travellers by chance end up exhibiting the symptoms of SARS they will not be able to board a plane to go home. Another point to consider is that if a traveller does fall ill there may not be adequate medical care.

Here's a quote from Health Canada: "Travellers are advised that they will have to depend upon the local medical services in the countries where they reside or visit and are reminded that the health care services may be inadequate for the appropriate management of SARS. For example, Health Canada has been informed that adequate hospital care for a traveller who develops SARS in the City of Hanoi may not be available due to closure of the only adequate hospital in that City. In addition, medical evacuation of a patient with SARS may be very difficult. Canadian Missions may not be able to assist Canadians with SARS with medical transportation out of the region or back to Canada."

I must agree that under the current circumstances the trip will not be as relaxing and enjoyable, even though the risk of catching and dying of SARS is still low.

As a side note, I'm glad that Imaginative Traveller has provided such a forum to discuss such topics. I find it very useful and informative. Thank you.

A Concerned Traveller

Re: SARS Pneumonia?

Today, we had an urgent meeting organized by the university (Chinese University of Hong Kong) where I am studying. I wanna give you this information which seem to be reliable and not available in other countries. A doctor attending the meeting said following:

- It is definitely the case that the number
of infections will increase during the
next few weeks or maybe months. Optimistic
medical experts argue that there will be
at least a rising number of infections
within the next 14 days.
- He does not recommend to travel to Asian
countries, to China in particular. Why?
China's government has a very bad
reputation (even among Chinese) in regard
to provide accurate datas. Other countries
in the asian-pacific area (including
Australia) will try to prevent the
immigration of people coming from affected
areas. Vietnam for example, which has
enjoyed a stable number of infections for
the last two weeks, is not keen to welcome
travellers from Hong Kong as long as the
situation here is not under control.
- He argued further that nobody knows
whether flying is safe or not.
- In case one travels to an affected area
and one returns to his / her home country,
this person is a potential "carrier" of
the virus. This means that this person
should go into quara